tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7706071451857400135.post5208565560242151909..comments2024-03-23T06:14:11.632-08:00Comments on "Come, Follow Me" with Gospel Doctrine Plus: Doctrine and Covenants 41-44Nancy Wyatt Jensenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14758524730006544116noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7706071451857400135.post-74048358106262289152013-06-18T03:29:41.367-08:002013-06-18T03:29:41.367-08:00To think that Marxism, Communism, Leninsm, and Soc...To think that Marxism, Communism, Leninsm, and Socialism are similar to the Law of consecration and the United Order has to be a thought of one who has not looked up what the prophets of God have said about it.<br />I have found 3 first presidency statements from the 1930's-1960's that state marxism couldn't be any more different. Than the law of consecration. President David O. McKay said that whosoever supports such false doctrines they will prove a snare to his feet.<br />For the honest student, I will post links to all these articles:<br /><br />"Communism and all other similar isms bear no relationship whatever to the United Order." - Marion G. Romney (1945 April GC)<br /><br />"The fundamental principle of this system was the private ownership of property. Each man owned his portion, or inheritance, or stewardship, with an absolute title, which he could alienate, or hypothecate, or otherwise treat as his own. The Church did not own all of the property, and the life under the United Order was not a communal life, as the Prophet Joseph, himself said (History of the Church, Volume III, p. 28). The United Order is an individualistic system, not a communal system." - President J. Reuben Clark (1942 Oct GC)<br />http://scriptures.byu.edu/gettalk.php?ID=43&era=yes<br /><br />1942 First Presidency statment, History of the Church Vol. 6 pgs 32-33 where the prophet Joseph Smith says that the doctrine of socialism he did not believe in, the whole 3rd chapter of John Taylor's book "the government of God", a Talk called "Socialism and the United Order" by President Marion G. Romney in 1966 GC, and many other resources. BJ Spurlockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04828950680105583376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7706071451857400135.post-22530883615696499962013-04-21T06:26:40.789-08:002013-04-21T06:26:40.789-08:00Beautifully put, Taylor. Allow me to elaborate on...Beautifully put, Taylor. Allow me to elaborate on your thought.<br /><br />Lenin was just slightly off from God's plan, in the same way that Satan was: Lenin claimed a desire to equalize the people to remove any from the possibility of poverty, but as you know, a history of Marxism will show that it caused a greater disparity. The application was different than the original ideal. The leadership prospered from the enslavement of the masses.<br /><br />Even if Marxism had worked to its ideal, it would have simply brought everyone to the same level: some higher than they were, some lower than they were, for fairness' sake.<br /><br />Satan sought to save everyone by removing their freedom, therefore "equalizing" all, while elevating himself as the savior. But without allowing the people to choose, to grow, to change, it would have been a pointless existence.<br /><br />God does not seek to equalize, but to elevate! Everyone is given the chance to reach the very top, to be equal not with other people alone, but with Christ! Everyone is free to choose it (even Lenin in the spirit world), though no one deserves it through their own merits. If they choose to reject the atonement, they remain where they are (remember this present earth life with its beauties and joys is a telestial existence). If they choose to be basically good, kind people, they are elevated to a terrestrial existence (what most people would call "heaven"). If they choose to accept the atonement and give up anything that prevents them from becoming like Christ, they are glorified to become gods.<br /><br />Why would anyone complain about that?Nancy Wyatt Jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14758524730006544116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7706071451857400135.post-78205807920971828662013-04-20T22:08:24.809-08:002013-04-20T22:08:24.809-08:00A correct understanding of the doctrine is needed ...A correct understanding of the doctrine is needed to see that there is no threat. God seeks to give you everything He has and to make you a joint-heir with Christ of every good thing. <br /><br />You are complaining that God is trying to make you like He is, something Lenin never even contemplated or was remotely capable of offering.Taylornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7706071451857400135.post-67894491237717849082013-04-17T13:57:20.458-08:002013-04-17T13:57:20.458-08:00Well, threat of hellfire (or just lesser glory) ma...Well, threat of hellfire (or just lesser glory) makes it a very easy choice, regardless. E.G. You still have the choice of whether or not you 'consecrate' in the USSR, however you will end up in jail if that's how you choose. <br /><br />It's actually a pretty great analogy. In both if you don't contribute to the great overlord and His kingdom, you end up losing your family and much of your freedoms. Lenin would be proud of this Yahweh figure.poisonhttp://fromthepoisonedwell.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7706071451857400135.post-4071588252418898562013-04-14T22:07:18.829-08:002013-04-14T22:07:18.829-08:00A few thoughts on the agency and Telestial Kingdom...A few thoughts on the agency and Telestial Kingdom comments following the "Marx" comparison of the United Order, I would offer the example of an elaborate Lego Spaceship kit. <br /><br />It's sold with some 1500 pieces and can be put together however you want to make nearly an infinite number of creations. Some may feel constricted and not like the fact that the kit does have an optimal design that allows the recipient to use every single piece to create what is perfectly illustrated on the box if the instructions are adhered to by putting the pieces together in the right sequence. As all budding Lego-lovers learn, to get the Spaceship, they must commit themselves to learning how to follow the manual, but that's the necessary process. Yes, if you use your agency to put them together another way you may well end up with a Telestial result, but it is simply a reflection of the desires of the heart. Taylornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7706071451857400135.post-70563173574633335432013-04-14T10:47:30.887-08:002013-04-14T10:47:30.887-08:00I'm not sure what you mean, but no one is trul...I'm not sure what you mean, but no one is truly consecrating himself unless he is doing it because of his love for God and man (the two great commandments). True consecration changes who you are, fills you with concern for others, releases you from the hold of worldly aspirations. To consecrate your earthly possessions just so you won't reap hellfire and damnation will not make you into a celestial (love-filled) person. The heart, the desires, the whole perspective must change. <br /><br />And don't forget, the telestial kingdom is still a kingdom of glory. It is still heaven. The doctrine revealed to the LDS prophets is the most merciful of all, with very, very few people permanently going to what we would call hell. Nancy Wyatt Jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14758524730006544116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7706071451857400135.post-19116799504044013162013-04-14T09:08:02.917-08:002013-04-14T09:08:02.917-08:00Well, when it's either that or the telestial k...Well, when it's either that or the telestial kingdom, I see very little difference. poisonhttp://fromthepoisonedwell.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7706071451857400135.post-27670192689495426472013-04-07T06:05:40.498-08:002013-04-07T06:05:40.498-08:00Well, except for the whole agency idea, without wh...Well, except for the whole agency idea, without which the entire plan of salvation does not work. Forced consecration is not God's law, but sounds a lot like the alternative plan He fought against... ;)Nancy Wyatt Jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14758524730006544116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7706071451857400135.post-55146794747566892852013-04-06T18:40:21.940-08:002013-04-06T18:40:21.940-08:00Go socialism! Marx wasn't that far off from Go...Go socialism! Marx wasn't that far off from God's chosen economy after all ;)PoisonBloghttp://fromthepoisonedwell.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.com